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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3213
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Posted - 2014.03.20 14:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I'm not sure I like changing all instances of Refining to Reprocessing.
It doesn't make sense to reprocess un-processed ore and ice. Yeah, I'd say that anything having to do with raw materials should be Refining, and anything having to do with Scrapmetal Processing should be Reprocessing. Other than that nit (and my reflexive aversion to insta-refining)? These look like an excellent set of changes.
Yes, that is one discussion we internally had as well. We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail.
The point of merging those two terms however is to make it clear it is the same process and station facility / service ( you can't reprocess both ores and materials at the same time at the moment, and both "reprocess" and "refining" are appearing under the Star Map under the "service" tab). |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3213
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Posted - 2014.03.20 14:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I might have missed it, but do starbase refining arrays now take skills into consideration?
Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays).
This may change later on though. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3214
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I might have missed it, but do starbase refining arrays now take skills into consideration? Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays). This may change later on though. With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations. This. Very much this. (I'm pretty certain this was talked about at the CSM9 industry panel that should be going up on Declarations of war (.com) soon)
There was a discussion on whereas player Outposts or Starbase Reprocessing Arrays should come out on top of the reprocessing race - so far we prefer Outpost to have the better rates since it's significantly more expensive to fully upgrade a Minmatar outpost to the last improvement.
But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3214
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote:::Slow clap:: I read this dev blog...and I am still in disbelief. Everything looks ::cough:: Awesome. I think you actually managed to get this one right out of the gate. For years it never occurred to me that reprocessing could have been made better. This dev blog exceeded my expectations and I am glad to hear it will fix many other problems in EVE. The UI interface looks amazing and worthwhile.  Am I right to assume, people can actually reprocess ore in a Wormhole now too without loss? Holy $hit if that is correct. Now with increased risks mining in a WH, you can actually have something to balance it out. Awesome. One more question: "A character that has perfect skills / standings who reprocesses at a 50% station with all skills maxed but without the 4% implant will have 2.8% less reprocessed minerals than currently. Again, that is an intended behavior, as we want players to invest in reprocessing to get the most out of it." Does this mean that you will HAVE To use implants to get 100%? If so I disagree with this philosophy as the rest of the game does not work this way. I.e. People use implants mostly to make up for skills lacking and then sometimes to take it to 105% - not to get to 100%. Please reconsider if that is the case...it is immersion breaking imho. Thanks for a great dev blog and new summer feature though. My crew will really be looking forward to this.
You will need the 4% reprocessing implant if you want to reach the old rates yes. We also discussed the point you mention, but in the end we didn't want to increase reprocessing rates for high-security NPC stations, and as such counted the implant as base for the change. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3218
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:
But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.
I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from? Ore amount increases? I am losing this point as well...
That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.
NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.
However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.
Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.
Is that less confusing now?  |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3225
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Janine Ibanez wrote:Right now the ore compression BPOs each require the corresponding ore reprocessing skill to level 4 to use the BPO in a rorqual.
Currently, you don't need any refining or reprocessing skills to do ore compression, just some 425mm BPOs and production efficiency level 5.
Will the ore reprocessing skill requirements be going away to use the compression arrays along with the compression BPOs, or will anyone planning to do compression also have to train the relevant ore reprocessing skills?
We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3227
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Posted - 2014.03.20 16:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tarikla wrote:Weaselior wrote:You've made a mistake, here: Quote:As such, to keep ratio fairly identical, we are going to boost all minerals and ice products gained by reprocessing ores and ices approximately by 38.1% (1/0.724). This will apply to all the unrefined alchemy material as well. Because alchemy uses scrapmetal which is getting nerfed, you need to boost it by its own percentage (instead of the ore percentage) to get it back to where it is now. Upping this. CCP, you either need to consider alchemy an ore (heck, give it his own refining skill !) or boost MORE alchemy reaction for unrefined products. Otherwise you are NERFING alchemy reaction straight away. Oh, and yes, you are upping alchemy in 0.0 sov too.
Indeed, point noted, we'll have a look into that one. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3229
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3230
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ. Are there any changes to the effectiveness of ice compression? Those tables aren't updated - I assume because they're not changing but I want to be sure.
Yep, not being changed. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3247
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Ytterbium, if the Minmatar Outpost once fully upgraded is the new "100%" could the numbers not be adjusted to reflect this? Some players may (and probably will) get extremely cranky to invest so much time and isk into getting there refining to perfect skills and implants only to see they refine at 86.8%
We want to leave a waste margin if and when future changes are needed.
Regarding the Minmatar Outpost providing no advantage over the other racial ones when it's not upgraded, that's a good point, will look into that one. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3260
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Update:
- Unrefined Alchemy materials have been boosted by 81.81% next to TQ values to account for the 45% reprocessing nerf (since it's neither ore and ice, it doesn't benefit from reprocessing skills, only scrapmetal processing)
- Plan for Minmatar outpost to give 52% reprocessing rate by default, and 54% when upgraded to tier 1. Other values are unchanged.
- We're still investigating and pushing for Starbase Reprocessing skills to take player reprocessing skills into account. More on that when we get more info.
- We are improving the way compression is going to work: instead of requiring various volumes of ore to compress into 1 unit of compress ore, we will now have 100 ore -> 1 compressed ore with the same output ratios, with compressed ore volume dictating the compression ratio. This is a lot more intuitive to players to use and simplifying the whole thing further. When this goes live a script will be run on TQ to make sure compressed ore stacks are migrated properly.
Example:
- BEFORE: to compress Veldspar, I need 166,500 units of Veldspar, then right-click the stack to get 1 unit of compressed veldspar with a 257m3 volume. The compressed Veldspar would yield 690,500 Tritanium for a mineral volume of 6095m3. Compression ratio is around 23.3 (with 86.8% reprocessing rate).
- AFTER: to compress Veldspar, I need 100 units of Veldspar, then right-click the stack to get 1 unit of compressed veldspar with 0.15m3. The compressed Veldspar would yield 415 Tritanium for a mineral volum of 4.15m3. Compression ratio is around 24 (with 86.8% reprocessing rate).
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3272
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Posted - 2014.04.07 09:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Joshua Foiritain wrote:We could still use gas compression 
Interesting, this totally slipped my mind. I'll have a look if that is viable and can be done for some time after summer. No promises though |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
3366
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Posted - 2014.04.25 11:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Small update!
After sacrificing many Devs to the dark development gods, we are now able to confirm we will have reprocessing skills affect Starbase Reprocessing Arrays - if not for the Summer release, shortly after. |
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